Improving the Attack Mechanic

All discussion related to gameplay features and suggestions on Kinstrife
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Rallix
Serf
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 7:28 pm

Mon May 28, 2018 11:51 pm

Currently the situation for the attack system looks like this:

Free camera movement until you chamber an attack.
When attack is chambered, any movement of the mouse throws a swing from the direction the mouse starts to where to mouse is going, within the confines of the attack animation.

Effectively this locks the view of the player and their swing to wherever you decided to click and chamber a swing from, whilst still allowing strafing footwork.

I think the change to make is to introduce a second click into the attack process.
You click and then your character chambers an attack, and moving the mouse both moves the view and where the chambered swing is going to come from.
So you can move your camera and change your chambered attack direction before committing to a swing. The second click will initiate the swing from wherever your character is currently chambered, and lock the character's torso movement for the duration of the swing, like it is now.

I think you guys have stumbled onto something magical. With this change, you will have the opportunity to introduce a huge depth to this game. Effectively it creates a stance/guard system, intuitive and organic to the attacking system. All the while, ignoring the horrible ugly feinting system of Warband. Instead the player will move fluidly and naturally between different attack directions/animations.

Just right clicking to guard will cancel a chambered swing.

Should probably also try adding an inverse option to see if that works better with such a change.
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khaya
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Location: Netherlands
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Tue May 29, 2018 7:43 pm

Hey Rallix, welcome to the forums & thanks for starting the discussion around the attack mechanics.

It's still very early and subject to change so we're open to suggestions. Luckily we already built the attack system to be quite configurable so we can explore options and find the best fit with the community.

The next patch will include an options menu that will expose some of these options - and I'll make sure to include your suggestion as a preset. I like it! :)
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Rallix
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Tue May 29, 2018 8:57 pm

Okay that’s awesome. I’m really stoked. :D
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khaya
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Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:39 pm

As an FYI - the new version introduces overhauled attack mechanics and we included your suggestion as an attack mode. The way the guard system works is more apparent with armed combat, but we're pushing for a working version up next!
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Wilddog
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Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:20 am

Hmm. I feel like the current combat UI is made for attacks at custom angles.

If there's only 4 attacks per direction, why not just use the MB Warband method? That way the camera doesn't lock up and you just charge/keep your attack ready.
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christoph
Developer
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Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:24 pm

Copypasting my reply from itch:

That feeling of 'hm, something doesn't add up quite right' yet about the flow of things is something we want to balance out with feedback from the community. As you mentioned some issues with the input system - maybe that could be the 'missing part' that kinda puts you 'out of the flow'? You're also right that there's not a lot in the way of tutorials or introductions - this is something we want to tackle soon. We have not done so, however, because we haven't settled on a control scheme yet. This is a topic we've put a lot of consideration into - one of the things we've decided was that unarmed and armed controls are going to be different. This also ties in with your observation that there only seem to be ~four moves: This is actually due to the fact that there are only really three types of different boxing attacks - straights, upper cuts and hooks. They may target different body targets and be executed with either hand, and their angle may also change slightly. But they are generally limited to pretty narrow angle ranges that also do not really transition very fluidly. This is of course because we for now take grappling, throws, choking, clinching and elbows out of the equation.
Contrast this with weapons combat, where swings can transition fluidly in the upper 240° - which you can actually do with our armed combat. That is one part of the question why we do not adopt the same attack scheme like M&B. Another is - we do not like essentially just 'watching' attacks unfold after the 'charge' was 'released' in M&B. It creates a disconnect between what is happening on the screen and what you actually do/control as the player. Another issue is that it causes a delay to attacks. We instead work with a 'guard' system - think about the 'charged' state in M&B, e. g. a raised arm, ready to strike. Actors would mostly be in a 'guard' state that allows for very quick strikes from that position, but also telegraphs the angle. Strikes from vastly different angles take longer in contrast. It's all very early, but there's been great progress. You can see a gif of it in action here:

By the way, have you explored the different attack control schemes (e. g. drag & release etc.) yet? Any thoughts on that?

Regarding footwork - Do you mean general combat movement or how footwork aligns with attacks? The former is actually because we currently do not have proper animations for combat locomotion. You'd be surprised, but the majority of combat locomotion uses crossed feet... Which can be especially fatal with physics based combat and tripping ;) It's very high on our list of graphics-related things we want to get replaced, though!

As for speed - that's a good question and may even be up to personal taste in games. As you said, reactions in real-life are very instinctual - trying to put up one's hands to protect the face is a super important instinct. But also reactions like 'uh oh, I should probably duck now and avoid that hook' are very instict-based - which is not an issue in real-life because that very easily and naturally translates to movement of the body. But with games, it has to go the route of remapping that to a game control scheme and clicking buttons. There's certainly going to be a noticeable delay and it's something we need to keep in mind.
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